Saturday, July 25, 2015
Changing the scientific paradigm.
Ah, the nested structured~duality of it all.
In a different recent thread about subjectivity and objectivity in Yahoo-groups -- General Theory, if you notice, we talk about the subjective world and the objective world. As well, in this thread, we/people bring up the distinctions of physical reality and mental reality, or non-physical reality.
If you notice: objective and subjective, and physical and mental, are qualifiers or adjectives of world or reality. So, if you notice, what we are mud-wrestling with in these two linguistic snake pits also turns out to be two other instances of structured~duality:
world/subjective-objective
and
reality/physical-mental
I can make this clarifying observation and make such an innovatively disruptive statement because in the trial theory I advocate: reality, both the physical and the mental realms, is (nested) structured~duality. That is, the two regions are one -- unified. Having, myself, migrated somewhat into this new perspective, I am on the look-out for such inherent features and I find them... because they are inherent. As readers can observe, the compact, more unified paradigmatic generality of nested structured~duality (NSD) continues to provide benefits.
Why is this the case, though?
It's just the way things are. Reality is nested fields within nested fields. What we face and experience is one world; many descriptions. To wit: subjective-objective, or physical mental/non-physical. Thus, the challenge we face in moving "toward a science of consciousness" really is on the descriptive, linguistic side -- coming up with new words and/or new arrangements of expressions that do a better, more compact job of DESCRIBING the one world ...that has many facets and many descriptions.
Sunday, July 19, 2015
[general_theory] Objectivity versus subjectivity
Hey, Errol,
It's Sunday. I just finished livestream from http://www.citychurchfamily.org/ where I also enjoy hearing my oldest son play keyboard. The message, one I truly need to hear and heed, was on justice, mercy and faith, also, on becoming trustworthy, looking out for and being FOR people; Love God Love our neighbors -- asks: how we are in our relationship with God and how we are in relationship with people. The latter sounds like the positive sentiment you express/ed in a recent post in this thread encouraging good relations between people (minimizing the judgements and hypocrisy that people and our organizations also have the tendency to express).
I am somewhat mesmerized by JR3's mantra on love-fear, or how fear grows from love,etc., yet I wonder where that rather new age imagery can get us? How does that acknowledge and honor God?
I say, mesmerized, but more so, I don't quite buy that "I/we are God" mainly because that has not been my experience. Also, if you consider the cycles and food chains and patterns of metamorphoses within nature, from our perspective, how reasonable is it that we get to our position and assume that the (nesting) pattern stops and that, AFTER we hear the original story, ~we conclude that we, individually and separately are the beginning and end?
For my money, and my soul, that self-centered transposition is simply not true. Of course, I admit that in 1980 I turned to and did that thing you may have heard about: accepted Jesus Christ as my lord and savior. Yes, I can also acknowledge the apparent irrationality of such an action. But also, consequently, since then, over the long term I have seen and experienced changes in my life and behavior that align within the accounts presented by other followers of Christ. So, irrational or not, from my experience, there is truth in the belief and in the expectation and inclination and the commitment, however weak and vacillating, as in my case, my implementation of it is.
It is also true, since the two roads do diverge in the woods, that to experiment with the other consciousness study alternative, I'd need to recant and/or make a different decision or set of decisions. And even then, if you can entertain God as yet another ~objective truth, another level of nested fields within nested fields, then WHAT one individual decides can also be a bit irrelevant. That is, our particular level of organization is important in the nested fields within nested fields, but ours is not necessarily or certainly yet in control of all reality, particularly from beginning to end.
So the entire matter of faith is a challenging horse of a different color and love, I believe, is a many-splendored thing.
It's Sunday. I just finished livestream from http://www.citychurchfamily.org/ where I also enjoy hearing my oldest son play keyboard. The message, one I truly need to hear and heed, was on justice, mercy and faith, also, on becoming trustworthy, looking out for and being FOR people; Love God Love our neighbors -- asks: how we are in our relationship with God and how we are in relationship with people. The latter sounds like the positive sentiment you express/ed in a recent post in this thread encouraging good relations between people (minimizing the judgements and hypocrisy that people and our organizations also have the tendency to express).
I am somewhat mesmerized by JR3's mantra on love-fear, or how fear grows from love,etc., yet I wonder where that rather new age imagery can get us? How does that acknowledge and honor God?
I say, mesmerized, but more so, I don't quite buy that "I/we are God" mainly because that has not been my experience. Also, if you consider the cycles and food chains and patterns of metamorphoses within nature, from our perspective, how reasonable is it that we get to our position and assume that the (nesting) pattern stops and that, AFTER we hear the original story, ~we conclude that we, individually and separately are the beginning and end?
For my money, and my soul, that self-centered transposition is simply not true. Of course, I admit that in 1980 I turned to and did that thing you may have heard about: accepted Jesus Christ as my lord and savior. Yes, I can also acknowledge the apparent irrationality of such an action. But also, consequently, since then, over the long term I have seen and experienced changes in my life and behavior that align within the accounts presented by other followers of Christ. So, irrational or not, from my experience, there is truth in the belief and in the expectation and inclination and the commitment, however weak and vacillating, as in my case, my implementation of it is.
It is also true, since the two roads do diverge in the woods, that to experiment with the other consciousness study alternative, I'd need to recant and/or make a different decision or set of decisions. And even then, if you can entertain God as yet another ~objective truth, another level of nested fields within nested fields, then WHAT one individual decides can also be a bit irrelevant. That is, our particular level of organization is important in the nested fields within nested fields, but ours is not necessarily or certainly yet in control of all reality, particularly from beginning to end.
So the entire matter of faith is a challenging horse of a different color and love, I believe, is a many-splendored thing.
Thursday, July 9, 2015
Re: Consciousness is and is not experience.
Dear Joseph, [jcs-online 7/9/2015]
Is it just me, or is there a so-called disturbance in the force? ...of late, in the last 4 to 6 months?
Besides other stuff going on with me, I have had the odd perceptions recently that goes a bit like.... a realization that not that it is "perfect" or "right", but that transitionally and even for longer, that the nested structural coding/nested fields within nested fields storyline I am advocating, turns out to be ~right enough, or workable, perhaps just because of its laconic, tactile compactness, low cost, and alternate but still rather understandable 6^n nested logic and rationality. ....Close enough for an initial real-time global paradigm transition trial.
Talk about a hideously surprising and terrifying fear of success! Anyway, I suppose time will tell, sooner or later.... or not.
In any event, regarding our various extremist beliefs that you brought up, I am going to guess that a very, very large fraction of the angry young adult men acting within ISIS-like structural codings -- belief-behaviorial patterns -- have huge and devastating histories of intense personal and family grief and loss -- basically, suffering losses chronically over years, decades, or perhaps generations. Collateral damage from our drone attacks surely can not help. [But, also, check on this: Islamic State - ISIS origin story ]
It doesn't help much even if my guess here is correct. Then the situation just becomes very, very, very sad, devastating, grievous. At that point, about the only non-violent alternative or remedy for that underlying accumulation, that I can suggest for young men with pain-filled personal and family history would be something like WDA's "Restore Your Heart" grief and pain processing programs [1] . Don't get me too wrong there, yes, I'm speaking from my Christian experience with RYH groups but even though Jesus is alright with Islamic followers, I'm not starting out saying our ISIS brothers should pony up and join a Christian grief processing small group. I assume, or at least certainly hope that Islamic organizations already have their own equivalent or better non-violent grief processing group support systems. (Though, it wouldn't hurt our angry young and older men in this country, to pony up and process their own pain rather than act it out in their ways.)
Is it just me, or is there a so-called disturbance in the force? ...of late, in the last 4 to 6 months?
Besides other stuff going on with me, I have had the odd perceptions recently that goes a bit like.... a realization that not that it is "perfect" or "right", but that transitionally and even for longer, that the nested structural coding/nested fields within nested fields storyline I am advocating, turns out to be ~right enough, or workable, perhaps just because of its laconic, tactile compactness, low cost, and alternate but still rather understandable 6^n nested logic and rationality. ....Close enough for an initial real-time global paradigm transition trial.
Talk about a hideously surprising and terrifying fear of success! Anyway, I suppose time will tell, sooner or later.... or not.
In any event, regarding our various extremist beliefs that you brought up, I am going to guess that a very, very large fraction of the angry young adult men acting within ISIS-like structural codings -- belief-behaviorial patterns -- have huge and devastating histories of intense personal and family grief and loss -- basically, suffering losses chronically over years, decades, or perhaps generations. Collateral damage from our drone attacks surely can not help. [But, also, check on this: Islamic State - ISIS origin story ]
It doesn't help much even if my guess here is correct. Then the situation just becomes very, very, very sad, devastating, grievous. At that point, about the only non-violent alternative or remedy for that underlying accumulation, that I can suggest for young men with pain-filled personal and family history would be something like WDA's "Restore Your Heart" grief and pain processing programs [1] . Don't get me too wrong there, yes, I'm speaking from my Christian experience with RYH groups but even though Jesus is alright with Islamic followers, I'm not starting out saying our ISIS brothers should pony up and join a Christian grief processing small group. I assume, or at least certainly hope that Islamic organizations already have their own equivalent or better non-violent grief processing group support systems. (Though, it wouldn't hurt our angry young and older men in this country, to pony up and process their own pain rather than act it out in their ways.)
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