De-bunking time and space-time

[In jcs-online  as "Time as a memory function: debunking space-time Re: Consciousness and the doubl"]


--- In jcs-online@yahoogroups.com, Serge Patlavskiy wrote:
>
>
> Ralph Frost on July 6, 2010 wrote:
> >I suggest your notion of time as a derivative of information
> > doesn't go far enough. Your i = st, to me is more like an
> >on-ramp to, or perhaps a small vehicle traveling on the six
> >lane, double level bridge between the spatial-temporal, and
> > the enfolding structural-energetic paradigms.
> >
> >Our flawed and convoluted notions of time "as a dimension"
> > miss all references to time as being memory functions.
> >Your i = st connection with "information" may be more like
> >a second or third derivative.
> .
> [S.P.] Suppose, there is a child, its father, and an uncle who lives in a different country. When the uncle comes to see his nephew once a five years, he cries: "Wow, how tall you are now (comparing with your height five years ago)!".
However, his brother says nothing, since he lives together with his son, and sees him every day. So, the brute and obvious fact is that the increment of information depends on time in direct ratio. Moreover, the very idea of "time" appears as a derivative of the idea of "information": the uncle first talks about new information (new height of his nephew), and then he mentions the period of time.
> .
> So, let us base our ideas of obvious facts!
> .
> Kindly,
> Serge Patlavskiy
>

Hey Serge,

Sounds like a good plan.

Let's say the father and uncle have two other brothers who each had a son born on the same day as the first boy. One son had dwarfism and the other had a glandular issue leading to rapid growth.  At the five-year reunions, as in every other moment of life, yes, people draw on their memories A LOT.  Growth of the boys occurs as a function, not of time, but predominantly due to diet, genetics, and developmental stage.  Absolutely, yes, this clan lives on the same planet and has been taught to "tell time", and they generally have adopted the tenet of the dominant scientific paradigm  that  "time is an innate dimension".

Yet, when the uncle begins his now-tempered and qualified "my, how you boys have grown" speech, he has already pre-loaded the memory that five years have passed  since he walked back into town. And as he sees his nephews again he re-calls his last (only) memories of them associated with other memories formed during  the last visit, contrasting those of the boys with the memories he is forming presently. His surprise, compared with the fathers' familiarity of their sons' appearances, is a function of differences in their experience and memories.  

The people have all respired about 900 kg of oxygen and experienced about 1825 sunrises and sunsets - revolutions of the Earth about its axis.  The trees in the field planted from seed on the day the boys were born have all acquired five other rings.  The nested structured~duality is innate.  The changes in nested structured~duality, in the structural-energetic -- the experience -- exists.  But time, as anything like an innate dimension, does not.

Yes, things vibrate and oscillate, and we can and do isolate one or more vibrational systems and measure "time" in relation to that "clock". So, in one  sense, "time is a derivative of information" .

But even in your model, when you actually refer to any of the time methods you  may choose, the time is really also a derivative of that chosen  ~physical vibration. So "time" is not just a derivative of information alone but also a derivative of the physical layer, and certainly a first, second or third level derivative of memory.

When we consider or say that something varies or changes in relation to "time", actually, what we're trying to say is change occurs in some relation to the influences of the vibrations of everything else.  So, the word and cocept of "time" is more like a metaphor or synonym for "influences of vibrations of everything else", which is basically a reference to being a function  of changes in energy, or changes in the structural-energetic, or, if you will,  changes in the structured~duality.

This post today  is gives an alternate root to or expression of the theory of relativity: things really ARE relative to the influences of vibrations of everything else.  Notice that "time" drops away.

Consider Julian Barbour, and also, please enjoy:   http://discovermagazine.com/2012/mar/09-is-einsteins-greatest-work-wrong-didnt-go-far/article_view?b_start:int=2&-C=

Consider, also,  the symmetry here with  my trial theory of memory  where vibrations of the surroundings (of everything else)  selects out the specific 6^n structural coding of water molecules forming  hydrogen-bonded representations of the surroundings at a respiration site.

The "influences of vibrations of everything else" (experience) certainly exists and is innate. But notice the convolutions that accumulate when we misunderstand and mis-label "the influences of vibrations of everything else", as, first, absolute time, or subsequently thereafter in the second epi-cycle, where Einstein (and then we) attempt to remediate the absolute time flaw by merging "time", with space to get, say, curved or relativistic space-time.     These temporal misunderstandings appear mostly rational and logical to us given our history of impressed memories, and, of course, there IS also bound to be some empirical concordance due to the distribution or density variations of the actual or effective sums of "influences of vibrations of everything else" along various paths.  [Which accounts for why Mach's and Einstein's and Barbour's shape-based) models agree.

These clarifications  present a simplified or quick and dirty alternative account of what Mach and Barbour and others  are (or were) expressing or attempting to express.  (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Barbour -timeless physics)

Once the conceptual misunderstanding of "time" is exposed,  what remains is best described as nested resonant structured~duality. We create and/or experience and/or set up other nested resonant structured~dualities within this system.  Things in both the ~physical and mental realms are the same one stuff: structured~duality.

The alleged difficulties in unifying relativistic and multiple-state physical theories arise due to this deeply ingrained "scientific temporal misunderstanding". That is, the relativistic space-time theory  is actually some type of flawed nested multiple-state model which is approximating summing  for all "influences of vibrations of everything else".

An implication, also, I suppose, is attractions and repulsions exist, but ~gravity and curved space-time do not necessarily exist except within certain paradigmatic models (also instances of structured~duality).

Mull it over as you try to make sense of the Higgs boson syrup.

Best regards,
Ralph Frost


http://structuredduality.blogspot.com

With joy you  will draw water
from the wells of salvation. Isaiah 12:3