Again, let me say that I don't yet track on what your specific worries actually are relating to me advocating a more unified trial scientific theory where reality: both the physical and mental artifacts and realms, is nested structured~duality.
From your statements below, it appears to me that you somehow have a fear that you or other individuals will somehow "lose yourself", if you or others even become familiar with, understand or begin to think of reality, the physical and mental realms, in terms of the single tenet -- as nested structured~duality.
I can clearly imagine that other people would not like to "become Ralph", nor would I recommend it. But why on Earth would you endeavor to make up such a false frightening tale or suggest that such a thing could even occur? To "become Ralph" would take people having the complete same set and sequences of all my experiences. That ship has sailed and everyone else is already happily, or not, sailing about on their own winds. I think it is wonderfully pleasant that God knits each of us together in different, special, completely unique ways. Don't you?
The basic point of intersection that I advocate, offer, and share, basically goes back to the single right hemispheric-like question: the novelty of "What do you get when you build a tetrahedron out of magnets?". A few steps into that, one discovers nested structured~duality underneath and supporting things in the animate and inanimate realms. It's a rather neat realization and experiment. More unified. A thought worthy of speech. Anyone can explore it.
As for your frightening tales, my speculation, presently, based on the signals you are giving off, is you personally feel quite threatened by the storyline and paradigm shift that I am advocating. Since you are casting the issue over into threats against identity, it seems somewhat logical to me that you, yourself are having some identity concerns and issues yourself.
I can sort of see it, if you fancy yourself as an advocate or believer of some panpsychism, and my trial theory and beliefs do allow for panpsychism but not in it as having or being a fundamental or top-level position. That might feel threatening to you. I mean, let's say that you do believe or have been convinced into believing, say, in panpsychism and consciousness as fundamental, as in the David Chalmers TED talk. Then, I suppose I can see why you'd feel a bit threatened since the change in tenet I am advocating, just within the scientific paradigm level of organization, innovatively disrupts that belief and, within the protein-folding, could feel like an ontological threat.
Okay. That would be something awesome for you to sit with, wouldn't it? I mean, personal fundamental tenets are protein-foldings, too. So it certainly WOULD feel like something, particularly, when discovered as a necessary change via disruptive innovation. That is, the change would feel threatening when a person had previously adopted and reinforced an erroneous belief and position. Undergoing the paradigm transition would involve unwinding prior protein-folding and synthesis, while or as synthesizing and folding the new and improved patterns.
But, if you look closer, Joseph, intelligent people do this sort of transition throughout life. This shift is, after all, just a rather small paradigm transition shifting from being embedded in just cube/subject-object out into the more deeply nested structured~duality -- guided by the analog math. It's just a rather small change in the scientific paradigm. Yes, some slow and gentle changes in protein-folding are involved, but people's identities and spiritual beliefs remain intact. What's not to like?
But, let's look deeper...
---In jcs-online@yahoogroups.com,
Ralph, All,
Joseph wrote: Life itself is a polar dichotomy. The magnetic tetrahedron involves a polarity. Positive-negative. Plus-minus. Good-bad. Up-down. North-south. Love-fear. Material reality is a structured duality. Life is not. So we have an experience within which two apparently contradictory truths can exist in the same time. In this case, the apparently contradictory truths can even exist in the same space at the same time. Living conscious polar reality. Lifeless nested structured dualistic matter.
[rf] I disagree on your position that "Life is not [nested structured~duality]",. Or, more precisely, both the physical and mental realms,and both the animate and inanimate realms do indeed ride happily along on the underlying principle of structured~duality. The scientific paradigm statement on the tee-shirt continues to hold: Reality is nested structured~duality. Just consider the images in the slideshow at Image browser
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If you are shown on a picture and don't want this let me know and I will remove it. This page is autogenerated, get the script.
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(...may need to click one image box to start).
What you see is imagery of methane, ammonia, water -- the stuff of life, all in the same tactile feel as in the magnetic tetrahedron -- there is just the one common pattern.
Ask your left-hemisphere/parts analysis functions to go away and do a quick and dirty sift and sort count of molecules in the local region resonating in these few patterns. See if ~you don't come back receiving a very, very large pattern recognition hit, or hits. Life runs within sp3-hybridized molecular bonding. Life is littered with this one pattern. And we are still in the realm of nested structured~duality.
In your list: "Positive-negative. Plus-minus. Good-bad. Up-down. North-south. Love-fear", notice that "Good-bad. Love-fear" involve a deeper level of nesting, off into vastly different categories than the other pairs. However, both of these more deeply nested notions also do nest back to plain old attraction-repulsion which is also reflected in the exemplar of the magnetic tetrahedron. Therefore, your assertion of "Life is not", does not how up under even mild consideration.
[/rf]
What is “best” depends on who you are, and who you seek to be. Who do you want to be Ralph? We are, you and I, a dichotomy, not a nested structured duality. You are, first and foremost, a matter body. By contrast, I am a conscious Living Being.
[rf]
Gee, I feel so shamed by your arrogant, bullying slur... matter body doesn't even warrant one capital letter? Should I feel bad, or understand that I am bad? What can anyone ever hope for if in the presence of Joseph, conscious Living Being?
Try to get a grip, please.
[/rf]
A structured duality is not fundamental.
[rf] Not fundamental in what sense and in what frame of reference? I believe I have been pretty consistent in presenting the principle and tenet as a rather simple way to shift from one scientific paradigm to an improved, more unified, more robust scientific paradigm. The principle exists within, supports and is clearly visible within the so-called space-time relativity and the multiple states in quantum mechanics. The insight facilitates seeing reality as nested fields within nested fields -- Higgs within electromagnetic.
The change is a moderately fundamental change in perspective, coming within a particular transition in our scientific paradigm.
Why be afraid and resistant, Little Joey, to the point where you make up half-truths and deceptive statements?
[/rf]
In order to be a reality called a structured duality, you have to be a reality that is an unstructured unity.
[rf]
What is with all these crazy, idiotic rules that you think apply? No wonder your finding yourself unable to do anything but whine and blame.
In a deeply nested structured~duality, an individual can get an impression and then formulate a useful and helpful expression. People are free to do that. That is how science and the arts work. Yes, whine if you must about the chaotic unity that you experience. There is a lot we humans do not understand and cannot clearly communicate, but notice that when you do come down off your high horse you do employ nested structured~duality to express the instance of structured~duality that you call "unstructured unity".
[/rf]
It is not separate from a structured duality. Some call that "God" (please see my entry in Ralph's poll). "God" is the first "reality". Then "God" creates, starts structuring "things" from that place of unstructured unity. "And God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day and the darkness Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day." (Genesis)
Then you start doing things from this place of being. Soon you discover that what you are doing winds up bringing you the things that you have alway wanted to "have".
This is the creative process. This is what nested structured duality is missing.
[rf]
Are you here still referring to the God you prayed to twice and who you think didn't grant your wish? The God that you became displeased with?
And are you now quoting the same Living God's Bible?
Nested structured~duality is not missing or suppressing the creative process. On the contrary.
[/rf]
In this way, through a dichotomy of being and doing, we work with rather than against the creative power of the universe. In this way, we are, in God's image, children of God. So, what do you want to be Ralph? Separate from God, as a nested structured dualist, or as a created portion of a unified God? Its your choice.
[rf]
Let's read on and see where you are thinking you are heading.
[/rf]
As you start being a nested structured dualist, you have engaged the gears of most powerful creation machine in the universe -your Divine Self. And so now you are churning out more and more nested structured dualities. Everything to you is now lifeless matter. That is your reality.
[rf]
On the contrary, largely, ~everything over within the ~consciousness/mental region is just lively, awesome protein-folding which generally has an actual energy-value. And each of us, together and separate, are held within the enfolding, loving embrace of the God above all gods. Attraction. Acceptance. And yes, scientifically, nested structured~duality for as far as the eye can see.
So, if you see lifeless, take the log out of your own eye.
[/rf]
Only objective phenomena are now drawn to you subconsciously; all events are created by you unconsciously; every person, place, or thing in your life is drawn to you by you – was Self-created, if you will – to provide you with the exact and perfect conditions, the perfect opportunity, to experience what you next wish to experience as you go about the business of evolving. Nested structured duality. That is your reality. That is who you are, what you are, who you have chosen to be. You are a body
By contrast, I am a Triune Being made up of body, mind and spirit. That is who I have chosen to be.
[rf]
Er, I rather doubt it, conscious Living Being. Particularly, if there was truth in the latter, you would not be expressing the falsehoods that you do in the former. Why disrespect and tear down?
[/rf]
>Ralph wrote: and then you go on from there to self-generate several anxiety-filled concerns from that flawed basis. If you are ever successful at quelling your anxiety, try not to do that any more.
Second, before you go off fearful of imaginary paradoxes or multi-doxes in the emerging, more unified paradigms wherein reality is nested structured~duality, try to reflect upon the many inter-relationships of regular old form and function which litter the traditional western paradigm. Isn't form following function, and vice-versa, even more of a perplexing paradox or anomaly in the currently dominant western scientific paradigm?
Joseph wrote: Ultimately, all Ralph's thoughts are sponsored by love or fear. This is a polarity, not a duality. But, in the end, their is only One. Love, un-structured, un-nested, non-dualistic, is all there is. Even fear is an outgrowth of love.
And so, the natural emotions, when expressed, produce Ralph's unnatural reactions and responses, lifeless matter. Well, that's only natural : )
[rf]
More crazy-making, idiotic rules, huh, conscious Living Being? The opposite pole of love is indifference. Fear. cowers in the face of bravery and faith. Your generalizations are founded on false statements and false themselves.
[/rf]
>Ralph wrote: You, Joseph, also appear to fail to track on the differences between developing a science of consciousness as contrasted with shifting the scientific paradigm such that one new model accounts for the various aspects of reality, including ~consciousness. You seem intent on the former. My approach succeeds with the latter. Perhaps this distinction could enable you and others to continue to pursue various special theories of consciousness amid the emerging general theory. That seems like an open possibility and one I would encourage you to pursue.
Joseph wrote: A clear statement of a dichotomy, of a distinction, of a contrast, of unstructured basic open possibilities, not of a nested structured duality.
Joseph
Special theories nested within general... not necessarily THAT unstructured , but the region is open for people to explore.
Best regards,
Ralph Frost
Paradigm Transition Support
[fSci] -- Frost Scientific
http://frostscientific.com
http://structuredduality.blogspot.com
With joy you will draw water
from the wells of salvation. Isaiah 12:3
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