Structural coding exists; time does not.

Hi, Chris, 
The   model I am advocating currently is that thoughts are structurally coded in ordered water.  You and I are about 60% water and in respiring about 160 kg of oxygen per year so our respiration sites (within neurons, and other cells) are generating 10^20 water molecules per second.  Water's structured~duality (two plus and two minus vertices in a tetrahedral-like shape) could support 6^n or 12^n structural coding forming internal representations of the vibrations of our surroundings.  Such units would also be hydrogen bonding packets that are influential in protein-folding, etc., (expression).  Yes, it may well be speculative, but the model is  visualizable, non-classical and somewhat rational enough, and storing such immediate ('now') stacks of ordered water in bound water layers of newly forming protein matrices provides a way to get more persistent (aka, longer-term) structural coding or memory.  It seems to be a somewhat interesting model and  trial theory.

More below..

On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 11:45 AM 'Chris Nunn' via Scientific Basis of Consciousness <scientific-basis-of-consciousness@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Hi Ralph,
But what are ‘thoughts’ made of? Dynamic ‘codings’ of some sort for sure. And I agree that ordered water is likely to play a part in these, perhaps in the context of ‘hydro-ionic’ waves.

[rf] Perhaps. I think there are quite a few options for various kinds of structural coding. Plus, there are the various levels of un-sub-conscious as well as ~feelings/emotions, sensing, imagination, etc..   I have  happened onto the 6^n or 12^n structural coding as an internal analog 'language' which is an upgrade of the familiar 2^n binary coding. Getting associative coding into such hydrogen-bonding packets going  is just a step  or two away from sequences of protein-foldings sounding a lot like speech and/or the expressions  of useful, organizing sounds and words.

Something, however, is needed to provide continuity for the codings. As I mentioned to John, any purely classical account runs into trouble because its ‘moments’ are infinitesimal and its metric notional. But real things need to exist in a temporal dimension as well as the three spatial dimensions. As a consequence any purely classical account of continuity probably has to follow Julian Barbour in proclaiming the “death of time” and a universe lacking any real time, but only a path through an unimaginably vast array of relative state spaces. It’s another extravagant picture, not unlike a timeless version of the currently popular multiverse.

[rf] My impression for a few years has been:  "experience exists; time does not" -- or that ~time and the entire  many flavors of temporal notions are an artifact of our structural coding. It's difficult to describe and clarify because the notions of time  (and space) are paradigmatic in the dominant model. In  NSD, reality is nested structured~duality  -- nested fields within nested fields --  where, let's say we are structurally coding "thoughts" or "memories" as nested fields within nested fields.  Those so-called 'moments' are dependent upon  _completing_ increments of  structural coding which we might visualize as  building a coded stack of 12 or 18 water molecules, or perhaps packing  a number of those stacks within a newly forming  bound water layer.  You and I would likely still say, "yeah, but those processes take time", and yes, so it appears.  But add some catalyzing enzymes and the times the process takes lessens.  So the 'moments' still centrally depend on "completing the structural coding of a recognizable, recallable ~thought". 

Such bio-molecular structural coding is minimally non-classical and not infinitesimal. Yet, notice that what matters is that energy-collection-related structural coding does get packed, say, into bound water layers such that as the relevant (perhaps even caustive)  vibratory pattern repeats, the ~echo reactivates the stored structural coding to spawn a useful or effective adaptive response or expression.   You and I may consider these repeating events occurring "in time", and certainly the Earth turns daily as it obits the Sun, but the fact still is: experience (structural coding) exists; time does not".

Re: Reality!

Hi, Chris, 

The   model I am advocating currently is that thoughts are structurally coded in ordered water.  You and I are about 60% water and in respiring about 160 kg of oxygen per year so our respiration sites (within neurons, and other cells) are generating 10^20 water molecules per second.  Water's structured~duality (two plus and two minus vertices in a tetrahedral-like shape) could support 6^n or 12^n structural coding forming internal representations of the vibrations of our surroundings.  Such units would also be hydrogen bonding packets that are influential in protein-folding, etc., (expression).  Yes, it may well be speculative, but the model is  visualizable, non-classical and somewhat rational enough, and storing such immediate ('now') stacks of ordered water in bound water layers of newly forming protein matrices provides a way to get more persistent (aka, longer-term) structural coding or memory.  It seems to be a somewhat interesting model and  trial theory.

More below..


On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 11:45 AM 'Chris Nunn' via Scientific Basis of Consciousness wrote:
Hi Ralph,
But what are ‘thoughts’ made of? Dynamic ‘codings’ of some sort for sure. And I agree that ordered water is likely to play a part in these, perhaps in the context of ‘hydro-ionic’ waves.

[rf] Perhaps. I think there are quite a few options for various kinds of structural coding. Plus, there are the various levels of un-sub-conscious as well as ~feelings/emotions, sensing, imagination, etc..   I have  happened onto the 6^n or 12^n structural coding as an internal analog 'language' which is an upgrade of the familiar 2^n binary coding. Getting associative coding into such hydrogen-bonding packets going  is just a step  or two away from sequences of protein-foldings sounding a lot like speech and/or the expressions  of useful, organizing sounds and words.

Something, however, is needed to provide continuity for the codings. As I mentioned to John, any purely classical account runs into trouble because its ‘moments’ are infinitesimal and its metric notional. But real things need to exist in a temporal dimension as well as the three spatial dimensions. As a consequence any purely classical account of continuity probably has to follow Julian Barbour in proclaiming the “death of time” and a universe lacking any real time, but only a path through an unimaginably vast array of relative state spaces. It’s another extravagant picture, not unlike a timeless version of the currently popular multiverse.

[rf] My impression for a few years has been:  "experience exists; time does not" -- or that ~time and the entire  many flavors of temporal notions are an artifact of our structural coding. It's difficult to describe and clarify because the notions of time  (and space) are paradigmatic in the dominant model. In  NSD, reality is nested structured~duality  -- nested fields within nested fields --  where, let's say we are structurally coding "thoughts" or "memories" as nested fields within nested fields.  Those so-called 'moments' are dependent upon  _completing_ increments of  structural coding which we might visualize as  building a coded stack of 12 or 18 water molecules, or perhaps packing  a number of those stacks within a newly forming  bound water layer.  You and I would likely still say, "yeah, but those processes take time", and yes, so it appears.  But add some catalyzing enzymes and the times the process takes lessens.  So the 'moments' still centrally depend on "completing the structural coding of a recognizable, recallable ~thought". 

Such bio-molecular structural coding is minimally non-classical and not infinitesimal. Yet, notice that what matters is that energy-collection-related structural coding does get packed, say, into bound water layers such that as the relevant (perhaps even caustive)  vibratory pattern repeats, the ~echo reactivates the stored structural coding to spawn a useful or effective adaptive response or expression.   You and I may consider these repeating events occurring "in time", and certainly the Earth turns daily as it obits the Sun, but the fact still is: experience (structural coding) exists; time does not".

Something temporally holistic is needed to escape extravagance of this sort, which does imply incremental increase and something memory-like, but it’s not going to be a spatially definable ‘something’.
Best
Chris

[rf] Consider just the on-going mostly resonant structural coding  of nested fields within nested fields as a feature of reality being nested structured~duality.