Thursday, August 9, 2018

Understanding NSD



For you to try to understand nested structured~duality  and  reality as nested structured~duality,  YOU might make progress on that task  by thinking of Alfredo's TAM as a three-layer instance of NSD  and your eDAM framework, perhaps like a yin-becoming-yang-like two-layered instance of NSD. Also, YOU might consider NSD as like a "multi-aspect (layered or structured) monism" -- MAM. Do that in a loose, approximate fashion and not too seriously.

As well, though,  I think you would need to shift over to different scientific paradigmatic tenets than those you presently hold -- particularly adopting  structure, really, structured~duality, as a fundamental tenet, perhaps in place of space-time and/or mass-energy, so that you can acquire and use a common common denominator also for  things like "thoughts" and "paradigms".

As well, I think you might need to relax or relinquish your hold on neuron-theory-only, or neural  or brain references and begin to consider, say, respirational, metabolic, genetic and epigenetic structural coding as additional ACTUAL ways we acquire internal representations of surroundings and, through (inseparable) hydrogen-bonding influences in protein-folding, also form adaptive, expressions.

My read or projection, so to speak, on your use of the word "inseparable" is that it appears to me that you are implicitly or unconsciously carrying on a measurement or testing of different 'parts'  relative to some additional structural or locational reference. Otherwise, perhaps you just extrapolate from wave-particle or yin-yang lores.  I observe a divergence, though, in your account on 1pp  versus 3pp and/or your focus on a hand-wavy relation with a physics-like energy conservation.

That is, in the NSD storyline that I am advocating, the so-called 1pp is actually running, say, its own nested structural coding representational and expression system within the 10^20 water molecules per second structural coding forming in respiration sites within cells (including neurons). And, in this primary or more internal system the structural coding representation and expression is directly coupled with our energy and materials collection and conservation process -- as we find ourselves engaged with it on "our side" of, or in relation to  the photosynthesis-respiration system.   In this system, sustenance is less a matter of alleged overall energy conservation alone but involves both energy AND structure collection and conservation.  If  you focus on your breath I believe you will come to agree.

Our 1pp runs in its own non-neural or sub-neural energy and structure-conservation-related analog language.

Our so-called 3pp, or group, or family-tribal-collective, empathy-relational, or more unified perspective -- the wordful one --  is perhaps running what I would call the secondary neural networking/verbal process.   Considering both together, you or other readers MAY be able to observe how it is that it can fashion together a description/model that observes and can state energy conservation as fundamental but is rather blind to, or wildly, confusingly verbose and nonsensical about  structure conservation.   The answer is the functional structure conservation  is already provided by the primary representational-expressive-pre-cognitive 1pp  structural coding process occurring in respiration.  Everyone experiences it so there is no big reason to be aware of it or be explicit about it. The structured~duality conservation is just assumed.

Again, focus on the breath. If you only see  1pp and 3pp running on the same or similar neural process, mostly likely you will not be able to consider the distinction I am making.

In this manner, then, contrary to what you may see or project  in eDAM, in the NSD storyline "effective information between the two layers" is NOT the same and it is NOT just a matter of viewing the same reality from two perspectives.   Minimally, the 3pp neural system receives its material (structure) and energy flow and is dependent upon the primary 1pp.

You, or other readers, MAY catch more traction on structure conservation if you reflect on enzyme (structural) catalysis or inhibition playing roles in survival or behavior, and how these structures come forward as transcribed structures from memory structurally coded within our genetics or epigenetics.  If you or your tribe have epigenetics helpful during drought or famine you may be thankful for that conserved structural coding.

So, perhaps some of that may help you to begin to understand NSD and reality as nested structured~duality.

If not, ask questions on where you think you are still getting stuck.

Best regards,
Ralph Frost, PhD

Changing the scientific paradigm.

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 12:14 PM, Ram Lakhan Pandey Vimal <> wrote:
Hi Ralph,


Frost: Similarly, when  Ram claims "inseparable" and relies upon, say, nested structure -- one item within another but where the speech does not identify structure as also fundamental.

Vimal: I have not understood your “nested structured~duality  (NSD)”, but the physical and non-physical aspects are considered as “a two-layered, modified NSD”, then the two layers are inseparable, i.e., whatever is going on in one layer is reflected in other layer because “effective” information between two layers is the same. It is merely viewing the same reality from two different perspectives. For example, if viewed from 1pp,  the effective information appears as subjective experience (such as redness of a ripe tomato) and if viewed from the 3pp, it appears as neural-physical activities. They look entirely different nature. The inseparability leads to H=P. Another example in the physical domain (QM), consider wavicle with wave and particle as two inseparable aspects, where energy in wave-aspect is hf and energy in particle-aspect = mc2 and hf= mc2.


Kind regards,
Rām Lakhan Pāndey Vimal, Ph.D.

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