Sunday, June 25, 2017

Structio-energetic global workspace WAS: overview aspect of consciousness


Thanks for links to recent papers. You and your group do a good job of threading through the many layers to get down to your 'hydro-ionic' flows and also Gerald Pollack's structured water descriptions of exclusion zones serving as boundaries and channels, and protein configurations.  I don't follow all of your perspective(s) but I get the sense that you observe or can measure and do focus on  calcium ion clouds and gradients and properties of astrocytes that differ from those of other types of aerobic cells. And, -- is it that you seek or have found 2-3 second long processes there to persist as or while a so-called 'conscious episode' resonates?  Or is that the elusive goal?

I'm wondering if you can clarify more on that goal or supposition, or point me directly to a page of yours where that is  more clearly laid out? 

I can and do certainly appreciate your ideas on pulsating clouds or gradients of calcium ions  playing or being the role of  so-called 'emotional feels or feelings' -- love, empathy, anxiety, lethargy,etc.,   but when we get to appreciate that type of structural coding -- whether you through your measure-able calcium ion gradients or flows,  or me through my more subtle 10^20 per second, 6^n stackings of hydrogen bonding packets in our distributed aerobic respiration processes closely coupled with our electron transport systems (ETS), seeing one instance of such gradients and structural coding, I think, is sort of a tip of the larger iceberg where the entire nested gradients of all the nested gradients: ions on various locations of the periodic chart, plus neurotransmitters, and also water-formed channels and protein configurations, etc.,  ALL also play roles in the various feels and distinctions.

So, I feel what is important is the first way one can see, experience and register  such 'feeling'  as linking and arises with some sort of  internal structural coding.  At least I appreciate that about the rather simple, direct way that is involved in  the process I advocate and I expect you experience the same or similar with yours re: calcium ions, etc.  I see a relation between the two in that additions of water molecules emanating from respiration sites would alter concentrations of calcium and other ions, and also could be the sources of flows of specially formed ordered water clusters near by to energy 'origins.

From your first paper on page 15 I read """...supplements Baars' theory in contending that the spatiotemporal global workspace is in the domain of neuro- astroglial interactions."""  On reading this, and in light of recent posts and the deeper or more internal perspectives,  I believe and suggest it would be more helpful to  see, consider and shift over to the analog 'structio-energetic global workspace' , rather than  continue to try to mix and confuse realities as is done considering  Baar's 'spatiotemporal global workspace'.

The spatiotemporal realm is a top or high level construct fashioned together well above the level of adopting tense in our languages.  You,  I and other people certainly consider ourselves and others waddling about in a spatiotemporal local or global workspace,   however,  our internal workings, and thus our considerations and conceptualizations and descriptions of our inner workings are all ciphering and functioning totally on the structio-energetic global workspace basis and NOT within terms of  the more familiar spatiotemporal one.  Our inner workings can't afford the luxury of , and don't consider issues on such a  contrived 2nd-person 'temporal' basis.

In the storyline I am advocating,  implementing or experiencing this shift in perspective is basically just a matter of adopting the tetrahedral frame of reference in addition to  (or reactively repealing and replacing) the dominant Cartesian xyz-cubic low-level format assumption.  Considering the feels  of 'the magnetic tetrahedron' (which I've discussed elsewhere) adds some quick empirical proof of
multiple states of variable mass-density  and, I think, is a good way to quickly focus in on the general and relevant patterns of    sp^3 hybridization that dominate  most of our internal workings'  (tetrahedral) molecular bondings.

After this conceptual shift is added, or made, then it is fairly obvious that our inner workings are running on the 'structio-energetic global workspace'  and not the spatiotemporal one. 
Thus the spatiotemporal global workspace is NOT actually in the domain of neuro- astroglial interactions.

Baar's concept is related, and there are connections, of course, but conceptualizing  in terms of the spatiotemporal framework alone just confuses the issue. For instance,  high or low concentrations of, say, ADP or ATP or oxygen influence the rate of Kreb's and/or electron transport system cycles.  This has influence reaching throughout the structio-energetic workspace.  Attempting to cast or conceptualize such inner workings as items in the spatio-temporal global workspace is not accurate and thus not so helpful. Yes, perhaps one can say, "Just do a sum on the rates or another math function to get the (spatio)temporal measure...", but in so doing, one is adding imaginary epi-cycles so as to sustain or imposed the supposed applicability of one's flawed conceptual model (spatiotemporal global workspace).  It is better to bite the bullet, make the distinction,  and consider the (nested, inner,
separate) structio-energetic workspace of the inner workings.

A similar or analogous model-related conceptual error is involved with the "information integration" debate. Also, probably, even the so-called 'hard problem'.

That is. on the inner workings level, artifacts just have or ARE structio-energetic transactions -- doing an interactive many-body dance. Simplistically, if, for example, an excess is present, a transaction may slow or go into stasis -- until the artifact is consumed or transformed or diffused away in other  remote and basically 'unknown' processes.   The backed-up or modulated concentration gradient is also, itself, a relevant 'integrated information' signal, and the pattern in the gradients, in relation to other pulsations are also 'the feels' of the combined experience. Acquiring such a holistic perspective is  one of the advantages of considering the nested structural coding occurring in the structio~energetic global framework.

Related to your hypothesized 2-3 second conscious episode relative, presumably  to astrocyte cells, what are your thoughts or possibilities?

Might pulse or pulse-related changes be a rather direct measure or factor?

Also, do you conceptualize or you hope to find/measure a brain function resonance or echo which persists for 2-3 seconds?

Or, is it that what is needed  is more like a region of  influence/connection that is "2-3seconds big"  in spatial or number-of-neurons scope, for instance wherein an ordered water channel or channels remains OPEN for that duration wherein structurally coded patterns can ripple along the  entire surface of the channel forming a more complex or information laden surface wave, culminating, say, in synthesis of a protein matrix  containing some of the ordered water within the bound water matrix?

A difficulty with such structural coding variations is, of course, in their difficulty of measuring, say, even ripples in multiple protein configurations, much less variations in hydrogen-bonding within ordered water structures.

I guess that may be  why concentration-based measures and research is so popular. The light is so much better or at least available under those street lamps.

In any event, thanks for your links. I wish you and your group well in your research and publications.

Best regards,
Ralph Frost

Changing the scientific paradigm -- the $7 idea.

With joy you will draw water
from the wells of salvation. Isaiah 12:3

---In, wrote :

Dear Chris and All:

About astrocytes and conscious activity, I would like to invite our colleagues to read my recent publications that can be downloaded freely using the links:

Best Regards,


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